RED SNAPPER INTERVIEW

Hello and Welcome to Italy. This is an interview for Discorso Musica, a radio programme aired through Radio Cooperativa. For the ones who don't know you yet, can you introduce yourselves, saying who you are, how you started, and when?

DAVID: My name is David Ayers and I play the Guitar.

RICHARD: I'm Richard Thair, I'm the drummer.

D: And we also have Ali Friend on double bass.

R: And Ollie Moore plays saxophone and melodica.

D: RS have been together for about 2 and a half years, and we have one album, or CD, which is a compilation of our three independently produced Eps - Hot Flush, The Swanky Ep and The Snapper Ep. Anyway these were collected on one album or CD and that's called "Reeled and Skinned" and then we have a new release called "Prince Blimey" which has come out a month ago. And that's all on Warp.

Is Anna Haigh a member of the band too?

D: Not a permanent member. She's more like a friend. We actually recorded three vocal tracks with Anna (maybe that will come out later or something), but we didn't think they were all right for the album; there's still a lot of material that we haven't released yet.

R: We apply new vocals as another instrument, instead of having a front person to the band. With "In Deep", which was in "Reeled and Skinned", we did something with Beth Orton, and tranced the use of the vocalist so that the vocals weaved into the sound that we were producing. And we might use Anna again, but on the other hand, we might work with other vocalists.

D: There is a couple of people that we have in mind. But I think we have always been instrumentable, we've always been like a very important part of what we do, but that wouldn't be the same that say that we won't work with more vocalists in the future.

R: We had a lot of pressure over the last two years from just basically labels. WARP was the only label that signed us completely for the music. A lot of other labels were saying "Well, they will be very good when they've got a vocalist". And we've never really approached it like that, it has always been like "the three-core members". It has always been instrumental. But that's not to say that in the future we won't work with vocalists. But it's always a sort of secondary thing.

What put up the band together? What was the focus that put the band together?

R: Well, about 2 and a half years ago the three of us had been working together in different bands. We knew each other just from being in London and playing music. At that time I ran my own record label, FLAW RECORDING, which was where originally we released "Red Snapper" on. And I was doing a lot of techno records and house music and, in the past, I made hip-hop records and jazz, a sort of twisty-jazz music. Really I wanted just to do something different and I knew David very well, and we were playing with a singer called Heather Nova, and I think we realized that we had a lot in common and we wanted to do something a bit different. We also knew Ali and knew that he played double-bass, and basically just got together. It wasn't like "Ok, let's form a band"; we just got together to play music with a saxophone player called Allan Riding, at that time. We had about four tunes that we used to play just once a week to get through them, and then we recorded them on four tracks. My partner, Dean Thatcher, who is the DJ I've run the label with, just listened to it and said "We got to released this, this is really good". So that was when we did The Snapper EP. And at the same time we did some gigs in small clubs in London. There was this club where a lot of the DJs went to socialize and relax, and our first gig was there. So the first gig we did was to DJs, who were obviously very critical, and they all said "This is really exciting, this is unusual". And that was when Mo-WAX was just starting and there was only really Mo-Wax and Ninja Tunes that were doing what we have been doing, and none of those were really doing it live. So, then we realized "This could work". It has built up from then really.

You don't use electronic instruments in your music. How is it that you record for Warp, that is THE electronic label?

R: We got asked this a lot. I think, altough they are predominantly an electronic label, more than anything they are an experimental label. If you look at what "Sabres of Paradise" have done, and "Nightmares on Wax", I think we sort of sit somewhere in between, and really what we are doing is a live equivalent of what they are doing. Steven, the one who run Warp, saw us live, and I think that was really the fact that we can recreate what we are doing in the studio alive that appealed to them. What appealed to them was also the experimental nature of our music, and the fact that we get that sort of hip-hop feel that they only get from samples, together with the musical element of what we are doing. And I think that they perhaps see that it is also going to stretch them: they haven't really got a fully live band, and it certainly helps Warp a lot this year. But, you know Popes? Popes were originally signed to Warp years ago in Sheffield, and Cabaret Voltaire, they too were involved with Warp. So, I think, altough it is unusual, because is mainly electronic artists, we look at it if they've been an experimental label.

During the concert tonight, you said that you hate trip-hop. Why do you hate trip-hop?

Ali: Why do I hate trip-hop? It's just a name, trip-hop. It doesn't mean anything. It's just an image that was invented just to try to categorize music, to try to hold it down again, and I don't really like that.

R: It was a journalist, a Mixmag journalist, who came up with that name. The same as progressive house: what does it mean? Our first two Eps came out before anyone of them ever come up with the name trip-hop, and I think a lot of the reasons now that we get categorized by that it's because Warp have licensed so many of our tracks to trip-hop compilations. Do you know what I mean? We do slow beats... it's not instrumental hip-hop, we call it jazz.

D: In our music I hear, like Richard says, I hear jazz, I hear a bit of rockabilly, I hear techno, hip-hop, surf music, film soundtrack music. I mean, trip-hop is just too narrow of a category and, next year trip hop will be something that people will be tired of, and they'll want something else. So, I'd rather prefer that we stand apart from that. We don't wanna to be associated with any little sort of school of music or something: because I think that our music is too broad for that.

Do you think jazz music has some weight in your music? And is there some jazz musician you particularly like?

D: One of our biggest heroes is Charles Mingus, and there is a track on our album "Get some sleep tiger" which was very influenced by Charlie Mingus. That, he would be my favourite artist.

A: I think the problem with the moment is with contemporary jazz. Contemporary jazz is of any interest to me, because it's not really going anywhere. We call ourselves "jazz"; there are bands like us, artists like us producing a new sound which is like new jazz, I think; but I listened to some Courtney Pine few weeks ago, and he was just going mad, with a really weak hip hop beat, and he called that new jazz. And it's rubbish. There is nothing been said in that. There is no attitude, there is no passion, it's just "I can play a lot of notes".

R: Jazz it's not about proving how good you are. Jazz is about improvising and soul and feelings and passion.
I'd say I've been influenced by people like Miles Davis and Archie Shaw and a sort of free jazz.

D: These are the kind of people that we admire. A lot of our music is improvised, is different every night when we play. Not two gigs would be the same, and that's a kind of jazz ideal, it's a kind of jazz ethic. And we want to keep that in the music. We'd like to leave the rough agents in the same way that Miles Davis would leave his music really rough, and would Mingus and Archie Shaw. We don't like it when it's too smooth and too clean. That's what we mean by jazz.

So, it's the live dimension that makes your music special!

R: Yeah, it has always come from a live angle, but on the other hand we experiment a lot in the studio, with technology. What we don't use are sequencers and keyboards. We sample ourselves and it's just as important to use technology and keep moving forward. What we try live is to try to keep that "looped" feel that you get from hip-hop records or drum'n'bass records, so that we are almost impersonating what a sampler and a sequencer would do. And then really we build the sound around David and Ali. So certainly, as far as David is concerned, it is different every night.

Wouldn't it be easier for you to use a drum-machine instead of using the real drummmer doing jungle rhythm?

A: It's different, because you wouldn't get the feel, you can't get real swing just using drum-machines. You need a soul, you need the mistakes, as well when you play. Tonight we played quite well, but there are still a lot of mistakes and that gives an human element, that gives a feel and soul.

R: And sometimes we make a mistake, but then, to keep that loop feel we just keep doing that mistake, so that it sounds like a bleach in the sampler, or a scratch on a record.
Now everyone is using samplers and drum-machines, and bands take themselves too seriously. We have done everything, and we are still drum'n'bass, we are doing our version of drum'n'bass. What we do is to go out and listen to drum'n'bass a lot and jungle; then, subconsciously that comes through when we're writing. We look at it just as fast jazz, because that's what drum'n'bass is. It's just jazz loops that spread out.

D: We could do this music with machines, but you can't tell machines to stop. When you're playing live, you can't tell them to do one beat a little bit longer: you don't have the flexibility! It would be nearly as much fun for us as musicians! It is an instrumentable base we grew up on, we feel very comfortable playing them. We got, I may say so, a pretty good attitude over the years, so for us it makes sense to do it with our own instruments, with what we feel comfortable; it makes it fun for us and I think it makes it exciting for the audience to watch.

What do you think about musicians using electronic instruments, like Goldie and Photek?

D: That's great and it's fine. It's not like, we think that it is wrong. It's just that this is what we like, this is what works for us. I've got no problems with anyone else doing it.

R: I've been doing house music and techno for four years, using drum machines and samplers and break-beat albums, but... We are not arrogant about it, we like any sort of music. That's just the way it has happended really: we do it live.
But on the other hand when we remix other bands we still possibly do sequences or samples. We never say "We would not use technology".

A: We don't believe in rules!!!!

There is a compilation called "A Cup of Tea" from Bristol, and many bands in this compilation use soundtracks or sounds that sound like soundtracks of the 70s. The use of these sounds seems to be a fashion. What do you think about it? Did you ever noticed that?

R: We're very influenced by soundtrack music. David is a real fan of John Barry. We are really into Burt Bacharach, Morricone, Curtis Mayfield, Isaac Hayes, but, without sounding pompous, I think there is a difference between what we're doing and between what "A Cup of Tea" have done. Because, again, narrow samples and a sort of keyboard created sound are different from the sound of David.
The reason for which David with his guitar gets this orchestral flowing sound is because he spent years studing classical and jazz music. We have all been in orchestras and bands before, we've all played jazz, so without putting those other people down, I hope there is a bit more depth in what we are doing. And I hope it's not much a retro' soundtrack. What we are trying to do is to make soundtracks for the future.

D: Yeah, new music for new films.

So your music could be the music for a new kind of movies: but which kind of movies would be the best for your music?

A: Something pretty dark, I think.

D: Yeah, "Scary Movies from Outer Spaces".

R: Have you seen "Twelve Monkeys"? Well, that would be a good one for us.

D: You see, what we actually want to do is to write music specifically for one film rather than have someone who takes a song we have already recorded. It would be much better and we would enjoy more to write something specifically for a film.

R: Annis Harrison, she did the artwork for "Prince Blimey", and she is also the one who does the projections when we play live,... well, she's getting into animation and film. And what we wanna do is: she'll make a film and then we sit down LIVE and just improvise, in one go, do the soundtrack for the film, so that you're watching our playing....

You didn't play just live with Red Snapper, but also collaborated with other artists. One of the artists you collaborated with was Ruby, with a remix of Paraffin (and it was a great work). What's the difference with the approach you have working with other musicians?

A: There's a lot of different things. With the Ruby remix we didn't actually worked with her. We had a track to remix, and normally you can put that tape into a computer and then we can play things to her... but it wouldn't work. So we had to basically rewrite a completely new song to go around with her vocals, which is unusual, but we thought we'd try. That's why it worked so well, because it's just a completely new sound. In general I think that working with other people it's like another stimulation, it's something else which should make you go "Yeah, I'll do that". You hear something in a voice, you hear something in some other playing and it's really exciting. We did something with Galliano; we watched the first Galliano's gigs, years ago, and the sudddendly we're working with them; and they are rapid! Rob is just so inspiring: he's just rapid! And you know, you must know what he wants you to do.

D: That's another parallel with jazz. Jazz artistis traditionally work with a lot of other people, and that's like a way to express yourself, to be constantly making new music, and new influence and stuff... So, that ethic is also a part of what we are about.

One of your first singles was in collaboration with Andy Weatherall. How was this collaboration born?

R: Well, I've known Andrew Weatherall for years, because I've always wanted to release my own records, and chased around nightclubs with "white labels" and played my records. Then I was in a group, called "The Allof", with half of "Sabres of Paradise", and I also played live for "The Sabres", I played percussions for them. I've known Andrew for a long time and we all have been really into what he has done. And it just seemed like a good idea. We really liked what they were doing at that time, and Andrew really supported us. He had a weekly show on Kiss FM in London, and he would play our music all the time. And in a way, in the same way that we worked with Galliano, that was to say thanks to Charles Fergusson for helping us, as well as being into music. But with Andrew it was more than anyone. I don't know you two, but artists respected him for so long and I think he's one of the best DJs in the world.

D: Yes, and I think "On a Dance Hall" was one of the greatest records. I think it is a classic.

R: Andrew is a DJ who became well known through acid house, but he's also a brilliant dub DJ, he's a brilliant hip hop DJ and he has got a huge jazz record collection. So, he's someone who immediately understood what we were trying to do and, as he has always said, "the reason I am a DJ is because I can't play an instrument". He's so into bands, and I think he was just really surprised when he came across a band that was doing what we were doing. And as a result he came up with one of the best remixes we've ever heard: and we saw it is nice because we played it live, the remix the "Sabres" did for us. I don't know if anyone has ever done it before.

Do you think there are other English bands at the moment which you feel musically close to you, and in general what do you think about the English music scene at the moment?

D: We don't really think about it as "this is England, this America, this is ...": We just a kind of look at music as a whole, listen to it and decide wheter or not we like it. I think there are a few people around at the moment who are doing something related. We like Morphine a lot, we like The Dirty Three, we like Barry Adamson. And some of them are English, some others are Australian, some are from US.

R: I think dance music in Britain is the best it has been for years, I think the drum'n'bass and the jazz, and the hip hop and the way the people used to go to techno clubs will now go to a night where there is hip hop and then drum'n'bass. It's really exciting. And there are really young kids who are listening to our records and "Cold Cut" records, and Ninja Tunes and then going out finding those old jazz records. So that's really good.

D: We hear good music all the time. We just played some gigs in Germany, and we played with some bands that are doing really interesting things.

R: On the other hand I think the Indie scene, the British rock scene, brit pop, the Blur and that, is rubbish. I'm not really interested in that.

D: It's too nostalgic for us.

R: Just nothing new at all. And I think Radiohead are the only band that are doing anything different with that sound.

A: That's what I think. In Britain the music dance scene is very healthy because people are trying to do new things; like the "Cold Cut", the all "Ninja Tunes" label are doing new things, and a label in Brighton called "Skint", a guy called Norman Cook who used to be in the Housemartins, and he's doing an album called "Fatboy Slim". And it's really interesting stuff, people are experimenting, they're cutting up brakes, they're just trying new things, and I think that's healthy. You can't keep looking backwards, which is what britpop is about.

R: The independent label scene in england is brilliant: you get "One Little Indian", "Mute", "Warp", there are some really good independent labels, but the major labels, really as ever, have just lost track of where it's going. It's a marketing thing, it's money, it's not about music, and that's why we are really lucky, because we are with Warp. We only would have played our music for ourselves, anyway, and we got a really good crowd of people which is now a sort of building up in Europe, they're into our sound and they are prepared to open their minds up a bit.

What are your plans for the future?

R: Sleep!

D: We got a few more weeks of this tour which has been going very well. After Italy we will go to Switzerland and Poland and France and Belgium. Then we are gonna go back to London and do some writing, and take a few weeks off for Christmas. There's talk about maybe going with "Nightmare on Wax", a Warp tour of Japan, possibly in January, so, we'll see. We'll take things one at the time, but we're already starting writing music for the next record.

R: We're trying to build up a sound for the next album. We need some time to find a new sound really, because it has always got to move on. Then, you know, it's always building up for the the summer, for the festivals, the european festivals...

Last question for you: what does Red Snapper mean?

R: It's a fish! You got it alive in the West Indies and in the Carribbean. They eat it in Greece a lot, but it is mainly a caribbean fish!

Well, thanks a lot! We hope to see you back in Italy soon.

interviewed by: Loris and Luca; translation by Sandra PERAZIN.